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 Post subject: dezbateri despre grasimi
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 7:57 pm 
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Unsaturated Fats

By Lita Lee, Ph.D.

6/18/2001

Original PDF file is to be found here. http://www.litalee.com/FILES/Unsaturated%20Fats.pdf

The following information comes mainly from the research of Dr. Ray Peat, who has gathered hundreds of scientific references, which document compelling laboratory data to show that excessive amounts of unsaturated oils are dangerous to your health. Other researchers are mentioned when appropriate.

"An excess of the polyunsaturated fats (PUFA's) is central to the development of degenerative diseases: cancer, heart disease, arthritis, immunodeficiency, diabetes, hypertension, osteoporosis, connective tissue disease, and calcification." (Peat)

Definitions:

Unsaturated oil: one that contains double bonds because it lacks hydrogen atoms. Polyunsaturated oils contain more than one double bond. They are also called polyunsaturated fatty acids or PUFA's and sometimes "essential fatty acids." These include: soybean, corn, safflower, canola, sesame seed, nut (peanut, walnut, almond, etc.), flaxseed, fish (salmon, cod liver), Evening Primrose and Borage oils. All unsaturated oils contain some omega - 6 acid, called linoleic and some omega-3 acid, called linolenic acid. Linoleic acid is the precursor of gamma-linolenic acid or GLA. Linolenic acid is the precursor of Eicosapentaenoic acid or EPA, which then converts to Docosahexenoic acid or DHA. I am putting down these chemicals because many people think they are avoiding unsaturated oils while taking omega-6 and omega-3 oils, or GLA, EPA and DHA.

Partially hydrogenated oils (margarine): the chemical addition of hydrogen to saturate the double bonds and cause the oil to become solid, to mimic butter.

Peat wonders if there is a threshhold limit of unsaturated fats, above which the deleterious health effects occur. No one knows. Since no one knows, I recommend avoidance of all unsaturated oils, that is, oils that are liquid at room temperature, whether processed, cold pressed or unrefined, except extra virgin olive oil.

Since all plants contain unsaturated oils except fruits and fruit juices, it is impossible to avoid them. However, the fiber in plants offers some protection against the toxicity of these oils. Don't think you avoid unsaturated fats if you eat commercial meat because commercial animals are fed soybeans and corn, both high in unsaturated fats, so even the so-called saturated fat in commercial meat is highly unsaturated (30% or more). There is no group of people whose diet does not contain unsaturated fats.

Are unsaturated fats really essential?

Is it rational to talk about substances, which we cannot avoid no matter how hard we try as being essential? PUFA's are present in all plants (seeds, nuts, grains, beans, vegetables, etc.) except fruits. Peat questions that unsaturated oils are essential (which means we have to eat them because we can't make them). Why? Humans and animals contain desaturase enzymes, which can produce unsaturated fats from oleic and palmitoleic acids when deprived of the so-called essential fatty acids.

No one has ever given correct physiological evidence that these PUA's are, in fact, essential. During the last 10 years many journal articles have reported that the body makes its own brand of unsaturated oils in people who don't eat the exogenous ones. PUFA's poison the enzymes inside your body that are necessary for the production of unsaturated oils.

How unsaturated fats inhibit enzymes and cause immune suppression

According to Peat, excessive unsaturated fats inhibit all body systems, mainly by inhibiting enzymes essential to metabolic processes required for health and immune protection. Here are some examples. Unsaturated fats directly kill white blood cells.

Unsaturated oils inhibit proteolytic enzymes and this has far-reaching effects. Inhibition of proteolytic enzymes by unsaturated fats causes trouble at many sites where proteolytic enzymes are necessary: the digestion of dietary protein, the digestion of clots, the digestion of the colloidal protein released by the thyroid gland which leads to the active thyroid hormone, and the digestion of cellular proteins involved in maintaining a steady state as new proteins are formed in the cell.

There is an enzyme system called the protein kinase C (PKC) system that is excessively activated by certain substances and certain conditions. Substances that cause excess activation of this system are: PUFA's, including free linoleic and linolenic acids, excess estrogen (a cancer promoter) and cancer promoting phorbol esters. These substances stimulate the cell while blocking the energy it needs to respond. The PKC system is also abnormally activated in diabetes and cancer. Unsaturated fats cause thyroid suppression and lead to hormonal imbalances Unsaturated oils block thyroid hormone secretion, its circulation and its tissue response. This leads to increased estrogen levels. Since thyroid hormone is essential for making the anti-aging hormones, namely pregnenolone, progesterone and DHEA, when your thyroid is in trouble, the manufacture of these anti-aging steroids are in trouble. Also, since thyroid converts cholesterol in your body to these anti- aging steroids, low thyroid function can lead to high cholesterol.

Unsaturated oils inhibit cellular respiration

Mitochondria contain some unsaturated fats to allow them to take up water. The body contains enzymes to make just the right amount needed but this makes mitochondria very susceptible to free radical damage AND to the damage of dietary unsaturated oils. All toxins are enzyme poisons. Dietary unsaturated fats suppress the enzymes that make in vivo unsaturated fats. Therefore, unsaturated fats are, by definition, toxic.

Ephraim Racker observed that free unsaturated fatty acids (PUFA'S) inhibit mitochondrial respiration (the mitochondria are the "lungs" of the cell) - the cell has trouble breathing.

Stress and hypoxia (oxygen deprivation) cause cells to take up large amounts of unsaturated fatty acids where they can directly damage mitochondria. Thus, large amounts of stored unsaturated fats may present a real danger to the stressed person (Peat). This is especially true in people who have cancer, because cancer cells are known to have a high level of unsaturated fats.

Unsaturated oils and diabetes

I have a client with type I (insulin-dependent) diabetes who has a terrible time controlling her blood sugar. Discussing her case with Peat, he asked me whether or not she ate unsaturated oils. Why? Because research indicates they are implicated in diabetes. I asked her what oils she used in her cooking. She answered, "safflower oil."

Carlson (1966) suggested that increased circulating PUFA's can block the Krebs cycle, resulting in insulin resistance from prolonged pancreatic stimulation. Recently, Ikemoto, et al, showed that a high safflower oil diet was found to cause diabetes.6 Taken together, these studies suggest that the unsaturated fats are involved in the process of producing diabetes.

To illustrate, in 1947, B.A. Houssay [7] found that a diet based on sugar as a source of energy was more protective against diabetes than a diet based upon lard, while the most protective diet was based on coconut oil. Essentially, he showed that the unsaturated (pork) fat permits diabetes to develop, sugar is slightly protective and coconut oil is very protective against the form of diabetes caused by a poison (unsaturated oils). Coconut oil increases the metabolic rate, apparently by normalizing thyroid function. Coconut oil provides energy to stabilize blood sugar while protecting mitochondria and the thyroid system from the harmful effects of unsaturated fats.

Similarity of estrogen and unsaturated fats: promote aging and disease

PUFA'S are similar to estrogen. The information that PUFA's and estrogen act similarly on the same regulatory pathway is important. Both inhibit thyroid function, inhibit vitamin E, promote age spots (lipofuscin), promote clot formation, promote seizures, and impair brain development and learning. Estrogen, found in birth control pills and in ERT increases secretion of growth hormone, which, in turn, causes an increase in free unsaturated fatty acids in the blood.

These parallel functions suggest that the role of PUFA's and estrogen in reproduction may be similar, namely the promotion of cell division, essential for reproduction but dangerous in abnormal cell division, such as cancer. Says Peat, "if a certain small amount of dietary PUFA is essential for reproduction, but for no other life function, then it is analogous to the brief estrogen surge, which must quickly be balanced by opposing hormones," (such as progesterone).

Immunosuppression of unsaturated oils

Intravenous feeding with unsaturated fats is so powerfully immunosuppressive that it is now advocated as a way to prevent graft rejection (Mascioli, E., 1987). The poisonous effect of unsaturated fatty acids on the immune system has led to the development of new intravenous feeding products containing short and medium-chain saturated fats (Hashim, S., 1987). [8]

Stress and hypoxia (oxygen deprivation) can cause cells to absorb large amounts of unsaturated fatty acids. It is well known that cancer cells are dependent on unsaturated fatty acids for life and growth.

Cardiotoxicity of unsaturated oils

There is well-established research indicating that excess unsaturated fats are cardiotoxic. [9,10,11,12] Since stress increases the amount of unsaturated fats and peroxides in the blood and in the heart, stored unsaturated fats may present a special danger to the stressed organism.

Recently, Kramer (1982) [13] found that the cardiac necrosis (tissue death) caused by unsaturated fats, especially linolenic acid, could be prevented by coconut oil. Does this mean that saturated fats are essential? Maybe not, since the animal or human organism can normally produce enough saturated fat from dietary carbohydrate or protein to prevent cardiac necrosis UNLESS the diet is too high in unsaturated fats.

Unsaturated fats are essential for cancer

In 1927, Bernstein and Elias observed that a low unsaturated fat diet prevented the development of spontaneous tumors. [14] Subsequent researchers have observed that unsaturated fats are essential for the growth of tumors. [15,16, 17] According to Kitada et al. (1987) [18], tumors secrete a factor, which mobilizes unsaturated fats from storage, thus guaranteeing their supply in abundance until the fat tissues are depleted. In some experiments, the carcinogenic action of unsaturated fats was offset by adding thyroid glandular. [19] This observation suggests that at least part of the effect of unsaturated oils is to inhibit thyroid function.

Ip et al. (1985) [16] studied the relationship of carcinogenicity to the percent of unsaturated fats ranging from 0.5% to 10%. His results show that the optimum unsaturated fat intake may be 0.5% or less. In addition to inhibiting the thyroid gland, unsaturated fats impair intercellular communication, [20] suppress several immune functions related to cancer, and are present at high concentrations in cancer cells, where their antiproteolytic action would be expected to interfere with the proteolytic enzymes and to shift the equilibrium toward growth. Even though cancer cells are known to have a high level of unsaturated fats, [21] they have a low level of lipid peroxidation.[22] Since lipid peroxidation inhibits growth, there is an absence of growth restraint in these cancer cells. Not only this, but tumor cells secrete a substance which mobilizes (releases) unsaturated fats from storage, thus insuring their supply until adipose (fat) tissue is depleted. [23]

Consumption of unsaturated fats has been associated with both skin aging and with the sensitivity of the skin to ultraviolet damage. According to Black (1985) [24], ultraviolet light-induced skin cancer is mediated by unsaturated fats and lipid peroxidation.

Brain damage, lipid peroxidation and learning disabilities

Let's talk about mice! I hate animal experiments, but I must tell you about this one. Pregnant mice were fed either coconut oil or unsaturated oil. The coconut oil mice had babies with normal brains and normal intelligence. The unsaturated oil babies had smaller brains and inferior intelligence. In another experiment, radioactively labeled soy oil was given to nursing rats. This oil was massively incorporated into brain cells, and caused visible structural changes in the cells. In 1980, shortly after this study was published in Europe, the U.S. Department of Agriculture (USDA) issued a recommendation against the use of soy oil in infant formulas. Yet, most soymilk products still contain soybean oil. More recently (Bell, et al. 1985), pregnant rats were given soy lecithin with their food and the exposed offspring developed sensorimotor defects. [25] Many other studies have shown that excessive unsaturated oils interfere with learning and behavior. [26,27]

Obesity

Many studies, elsewhere reported have shown a connection between coconut oil and weight loss versus unsaturated fats and obesity. Please refer to the coconut oil article for more information. According to Peat, this indicates the ability of coconut oil to stimulate thyroid function versus the thyroid inhibiting effects of unsaturated oils.

Is their hope after PUFA's?

Yes! It is not the exact amount of unsaturated oils, which governs their harm, but the amount of these compared to the amount of saturated fats. Basically, the more saturated fats compared to the unsaturated oils, the less harm done by the unsaturated oils. The healthiest saturated fats are coconut oil and extra virgin olive oil.

Some of the toxic effects of PUFA's can be reduced with antioxidants. Antioxidants might include certain vitamins and minerals (vitamins A, E, C, zinc, selenium) and antioxidant enzymes, such as catalase. In addition, thyroxin (inactive form of thyroid hormone) is among the structural antioxidants, and the known oxygen-sparing effects of progesterone may make it appropriate to include among the structural antioxidants.

References 1. Guarnieri, M., The essential fatty acids, Adv. Lip. Res . 8, 115, 1970. 2. Meade C.J. & J. Martin, et al. Adv. Lipid Res., 127-165, 1978. 3. Borst, P., J. A. Loos, E. J. Christ, & E. C. Slater, "Uncoupling action of long chain fatty acids," Biochem. Bioph. Acta. 62, 509- 18, 1962. 4. Lankin, I.Z, & E.A. Neifakh, Isv. Akad. Nauk. SSR, Ser. Biol. , 2,263. 5. 6. Ikemoto, S., et al., High fat diet-induced hyperglycemia, Proc. Nat. Acad. Sci., U.S.A. 92 (8), 3096-3099, 1995. 7. 8. Hashim, S., 1987 9. Selye, H., Sensitization by corn oil for the production of cardiac necrosis, Amer. J. of Cardiology 23, 719-22, 1969. 10. Byster, G., R. Vles, Nutritional effects of rapeseed oils in pigs, 3, Histometry of myocardial changes, Proc. Int. Rapeseed Conf., 5th, 1978, Published 1979, 2, 92-4. 11. Roine, P., E. Uksila, H. Teir, & J. Rapola, Z. Ernahrungsw, 1, 118-124, 1960). Byster, G., R. Vles, Nutritional effects of rapeseed oils in pigs, 3, Histometry of myocardial changes, Proc. Int. Rapeseed Conf., 5th, 1978, Published 1979, 2, 92-4. 12. Roine, P., E. Uksila, H. Teir, & J. Rapola, Z. Ernahrungsw, 1, 118-124, 1960). 13. 14. Berstein, S. & H. Elias, Lipoids and Carcinoma growth, Zeitschr. Krebsforsh. , 26 (1) 1-14, 1927. 15. Jurkowski, J.J., et al., J. Natl. Can. Inst. 74 (5) 1145-50, 1985. 16. Ip, C., et al., "Requirement of essential fatty acids for mammary tumors," Cancer Res. 45 (5) 1997-2001, 1985. 17. Cohen, L. A., et al. Cancer Res. 44 (11) 5023-38, 1984. 18. 19. Benson J. M., Dev., C. G. Grand, "Enhancement of mammary fibroadenoma in female rats by a high fat diet," Cancer Res. 16, 137, 1956. 20. Aylsworth, C.F., C.W. Welsch, J.J. Kabora, J.E. Trosko, Effect of fatty acids on junctional communication, possible role in tumor promotion by dietary fat, Lipids 22 (6) 1987). 21. Lankin, I.Z. & E.A. Neifakh, Isv. Akad. Nauk SSR, Ser. Biol. 2, 263. 22. Neifakh, E.A. & V.E. Kagan, Biikhimiya 34, 511, 1969. 23. Kitada, S., E.F. Hays & J.F. Mead, A lipid mobilizing factor in serum of tumor bearing mice, Lipids 15 (3) 168-74. 24. Black, H.S., W. A. Lenger, J. Gerguis, J. I. Thornby, Relation of antioxidants & level of dietary lipids to epidermal lipid peroxidation & ultraviolet carcinogenesis, Cancer Res. 45 (12, pt.1) 6254-9, 1985. 25. Bell, J.M. & P.K, Lundberg, Effects of a commercial soy lecithin preparation on development of sensorimotor behavior & brain biochemicals in the rat, Dev. Psychobiol. 8 (1), 59-66, 1985). 26. Harman, D. et al., Free radical theory of aging: effect of dietary fat on central nervous system function, J American Geriatrics Soc. 24 (1) 292-8, 1976. 27. Meerson, F.Z., et al, Effect of the antioxidant ionol on formation and persistence of a defensive conditioned reflex during peak exercise, Bull. Exp. Biol. Med. 96 (9), 70-71,1983. 28. Peat, Ray, Ph.D., Townsend Letter for Doctors, Dec. 1989, p. 637.

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 Post subject: Re: dezbateri despre grasimi
PostPosted: Mon Oct 17, 2011 11:56 pm 
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apropo de grasimi saturate si nesaturate. O cunostinta mi-a spus ca strabunica ei are 98 de ani. Si am intrebat-o cum traieste. Mi-a spus ca are niste fixuri si nu mananca niciodata ulei...in schimb manaca unsoare si doarme zilnic de amiaza. Se pare ca sotul ei a murit si el la 95 de ani dar ficele lor la aproximativ 60 de ani, nu stiu alte detalii despre stilul de viata.


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 Post subject: Re: dezbateri despre grasimi
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 12:45 am 
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Deci uleiul de cocos este cel mai ok sa inteleg.

Cine vrea sa citeasca si articolul cu uleiul de cocos:
http://www.litalee.com/shopexd.asp?id=137

PS:bhairava, linkul nu (mai) functioneaza.

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 Post subject: Re: dezbateri despre grasimi
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 2:03 pm 
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Articolul are niste puncte slabe, in sensul ca se intituleaza "Grasimi nesaturate", dar in text se identifica nocivitatea cauzata numai de PUFAs (grasimile polinesaturate), nu se spune nimic de cele mononesaturate (MUFAs, Omega-9). Uleiul de masline extra-virgin este in mare proportie format din grasimi mononesaturate (cam 73%) si o mica proportie de grasimi saturate (13.8%) si polinesaturate (10.5%).
De asemenea, nu se diferentiaza intre efectele omega-3 si omega-6 (ambele PUFAs). Fiecare ulei este o combinatie de grasimi (mono si polinesaturate, saturate), este mai importanta, imo, proportia celor 3 tipuri de grasimi in compozitia fiecarui ulei. Daca prevaleaza omega-6 (si asa se intampla in alimentatia omului "modern") in defavoarea omega-3, atunci putem vorbi de nocivitate si inflamatii. Proportie ideala omega 6:omega 3 e discutabila, dar n-ar trebui sa fie mai mare de 4:1 (unii autori mentioneaza si 2:1 ca proportie ideala).
Despre compozitia diferitelor tipuri de ulei de gatit am gasit aici: http://theconsciouslife.com/omega-3-6-9-ratio-cooking-oils.htm
Despre grasimile saturate vegetale - numai lucruri bune. In ultima vreme am incercat sa minimizez PUFAs (in afara de semintele si uleiul de in si cel de canepa - ambele surse importante de omega-3) si sa ma axez pe consumul de ulei de cocos si ulei de palmier rosu (in principal grasimi saturate) si ulei de masline (mononesaturate). Incerc sa-mi cresc astfel HDL-ul (lipoproteinele cu densitate inalta) si, in consecinta, nivelul anumitor hormoni. Cu ulei de cocos intri garantat (si ramai) in cetoza :) Daca la inceput mi se facea greata de la o lingura de ulei, am luat-o incet si acum consum fara grija si cateva linguri pe zi (e foarte gustos :droll: ).


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 Post subject: Re: dezbateri despre grasimi
PostPosted: Tue Oct 18, 2011 8:56 pm 
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Nici nu stiu cum sa incep, titlul ma inspira enorm, continutul mai putin pentru ca este disproportionat. 95% din spatiu este alocat ofensivei anti PUFA, iar grasimile care ne intereseaza de fapt sint amintite doar in treacat, la final.

Am sa incerc sa repar asta si am sa vin atat cu principii cit si cu exemple concrete de mod de gandi treaba. Pe intelesul tuturor, sper.
Am sa incep asadar cu un principiu de nutritie care mi se pare genial pentru ca este universal valabil si poate constitui baza oricarei discutii. Ii apartine lui Paul Jaminet si l-a preluat din stiinta economica. Se numeste principle of declining marginal benefit.
Definition:
"Rule of thumb that greater the overall level of an activity during a given period, the smaller marginal benefit it will yield, all other factors remaining unchanged."

Sau diminishing returns daca va suna mai familiar.

Adica, in economie, asta inseamna ca primul muncitor angajat la o treaba are aportul maxim. Urmatorul muncitor are si el aport, dar ceva mai mic. Si tot asa, fiecare muncitor angajat in continuare are aport din ce in ce mai mic pina cind devine inutil a mai angaja pe cineva.

In nutritie, asta inseamna ca beneficiile cele mai mari vin din primele 'inghitituri' ale unui nutrient, oricare ar fi acesta. Fiecare inghititura suplimentara produce un beneficiu mai mic decit inghititura precedenta. Eventual, tot mancand, beneficiile se apropie de zero.

Acest principiu se aplica si toxinelor, nu numai nutrientilor. Asta inseamna ca prima 'doza' de toxina ingerata are cel mai mic efect negativ asupra organismului. Cu fiecare incarcatura ulterioara, toxicitatea creste. Pina cand ....
Deci pina la urma este o chestiune de doza. De chestia asta s-a prins primul medicul din evul mediu Paracelsus care a enuntat prima regula a toxicologiei: "the dose makes the poison." In doze mici, toxinele nu sint periculoase; in doze mari ele pot deveni letale.

Cum cei mai multi nutrienti devin toxici in doze mari, Jaminet a facut un grafic pentru treaba asta:

Image

Sa privim punctul cel mai de sus de pe axa verticala. Acolo se afla prima inghititura, cea cu maximul de nutrienti. Sa urmarim curba rosie pe panta descendenta, pe masura ce continuam sa halim, beneficiile tot scad. Ajungem in punctul 'zero beneficii' marcat pe axa orizontala cu "Benefits End". Continuam sa halim, si la un moment dat incepe toxicitatea, marcaj pe axa orizontala: "Toxicity Begins". Deci mincarea initial buna in doza mica devine rea daca mancam o gramada si de-a dreptul toxica daca o mancam ca nehalitii. Cum avem de-a face cu un joc al numerelor (cantitatilor), optimul il gasim in "Plateau Range". Acolo avem cantitatea optima (maxim posibila) de nutrienti in conditii de toxicitate (inca) zero.

Principiul lui Jaminet este de a aduce toti nutrientii (micro, macro, toti!) in plateau range. Motivele sint evidente, maxim de nutrienti cu beneficiile de rigoare, zero toxicitate.

To Be Continued

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 Post subject: Re: dezbateri despre grasimi
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 9:53 pm 
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Bun. Sa aplicam principiul de mai sus macronutrientilor. Adica beneficiu vs toxicitate pentru proteine, grasimi, carbohidrati. E important de gasit un MACROnutrient care sa fie scalabil, adica sa poti construi o dieta de 1200 calorii in jurul lui, si la fel de bine, sa poata constitui baza unei diete de 3500 calorii pe zi, daca asta e necesarul zilnic.

Numele acestui nutrient 'minune' nu este in niciun caz proteina. Nu intru in detalii, exista o tona de carti & documente & studii, vegane si nevegane, despre toxicitatea proteinelor in doze mari si legatura intre viata lunga si aportul proteic redus.

Carbo, oricit de bine sint promovati in filmele de propaganda si identificati cu 'naturalul' si 'binele absolut', in mintea mea cinica ei vin la pachet cu zahar si/sau amidon (acestea fiind cele mai la vedere toxine, exista desigur sialtele, putem discuta pe fiecare caz in parte), deci teren minat si aici. Nici nu se pune problema de a manca 'oricat', din punctul meu de vedere, desigur.

Au mai ramas grasimile. Rapid 2 clasificari mari. Prima e in functie de (ne)saturatie si avem grasimi saturate (SaFA), grasimi mononesaturate (MUFA) si grasimi polinesaturate (PUFA).
A doua clasificare e dupa lungimea lantului si avem acizi grasi cu lant scurt (SCT), cu lant mediu (MCT), cu lant lung (LCT).

Eu mi-am facut propria clasificare, una functionala si anume:
I. grasimi 'sigure', adica grasimi ce pot fi folosite ca sursa primara de energie fara sa existe probleme de toxicitate; aceste grasimi sint SaFA si MUFA, adica saturatele si mononesaturatele.
II. grasimi care nu au potential de sursa primara datorita toxicitatii dar care ocazional imi pot aduce diverse alte beneficii (de exemplu anumiti antioxidanti specifici)
III. grasimi junk, adica beneficii minime (doar calorice) si toxicitate extrema.

Cel mai mare beneficiu SaFA & MUFA este acela ca poti manca si 2000 de calorii/zi din acest tip de grasime, daca asta ti-e necesarul, fara nicio grija. Alte beneficii colaterale, cresc colesterolul HDL, adica cel 'bun', protector, si cresc temperatura corpului imbunatatind substantial toleranta la frig. Exemple de asemenea grasimi: ulei de nuca de cocos (92% saturate, 6.4% mononesaturate), unt, pentru cine e in tranzitie :D (63% saturate, 26% mononesaturate), ulei de masline (14% saturate, 73% mononesaturate), avocado. Macadamia si uleiul de macadamia sint ok, dar nu merita mentionate datorita pretului obscen.

In categoria a IIa intra cam toate uleiurile vegetale din seminte. Floarea soarelui, canepa, susan etc Toate contin 50%+ PUFA si din cauza asta necesita mare atentie si masura. Poate fi mama lu' bio si tata lu' presat la rece, daca e vorba de floarea soarelui, tot 63% PUFA are. Deci pa.

In categoria a IIIa intra rahaturi gen margarina, uleiuri vegetale ultraprocesate tip alimentara 5 lei - 3 litri etc De aruncat pur si simplu, nu merita date nici dusmanilor.

Despre raportul O6:O3 si nu numai.
Dupa "unii autori", proportia ideala e 1:1. Adica (practic) imposibil, asta ca sa se linisteasca toata lumea.
Atat omega3 cat si omega6 sint PUFA. Dupa parerea mea, grija pentru raportul O6:O3 este o problema de rang 3.
Problema de rang 1 este sa gasesti o grasime potrivita pentru a constitui baza energetica a dietei. Problema rezovata, raspuns: SaFa & MUFA.
Problema de rang 2 este de a limita masiv consumul de O6! Adica omega6 in relatie cu restul grasimilor (safa & mufa) sau si mai bine zis, cu totalul caloriilor. Aceasta problema este un pic in umbra pentru ca strica marketingul vanzarilor de omega3. In realitate, exista date concrete. Omega 6 consumat ar trebui sa fie 4-5% din totalul caloriilor, nu mai mult.

Studiu de caz pe uleiul de canepa mentionat de catre Gabriela. Pe mine nu prea ma inspira pentru ca are 80% PUFA. La 80% PUFA sorry, e cam reject din start, raportul O6:O3 devine irelevant in acest context.

Aritmetic, cu creionul in mana.
Sa presupunem ca avem un necesar zilnic de 2000 de calorii si am ales distributia absolut decenta: 25% carbo (500 calorii), 60% grasimi (1200 calorii), 15% proteine (300 calorii). 5% din 2000 inseamna 100 de calorii.

Ca regula generala, indiferent de tipul de ulei, o lingura (14g) are 120-125 de calorii. Sau 9 calorii /gram.
In legatura cu uleiul de canepa, am gasit specificatii aici
Deci cu o singura lingura de ulei de canepa (11g PUFA, adica 11*9=99 calorii din PUFA) pe zi am rezolvat cazu'. Si nu poti sa nu te intrebi, ce anume are atat de interesant uleiul de canepa astfel incit sa merite sacrificiul? Eu nu am raspuns la intrebarea asta. 'Sacrificiul' consta desigur in a nu te mai atinge de alt PUFA in ziua respectiva. Ceea ce e oricum imposibil dpdv practic.

A se observa ca intr-o dieta high carb, 80-10-10, nu prea mai conteaza %PUFA pentru ca ponderea totala a grasimilor in dieta este minuscula. 10% din 2000 inseamna 200 de calorii din grasimi cu totul, pe toata ziua. Deci si un ulei cu 50% PUFA merge fara probleme in acest caz.

Desi am fost destul de clar, cred, am sa repet pentru ca e important. Inainte sa va bateti capul cu Omega3, sau cu raportul O6:O3, reduceti consumul zilnic de omega6 la ~5% din totalul caloriilor.

ps1. un alt link bunut cu compozitiile diverselor uleiuri + scurte comentarii: http://www.marksdailyapple.com/healthy-oils/
ps2. uleiul de cocos e foarte bun, totusi, pe termen lung, il prefer pe cel de masline ca baza. Imi doresc o cetoza 'mild', nu una severa (si) permanenta.

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 Post subject: Re: dezbateri despre grasimi
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:25 pm 
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foarte misto analiza , a iesit topicul mai bine decit speram (un flame cit de cit constructiv era maximul la care indrazneam sa sper :P)

3 observatii:
- untul e scos din vaci drogate cu hormoni de crestere. multumesc dar nu, multumesc. cu totul altfel sta treaba daca mi se ofera niste smantana de camila fericita, sau macar magarita, sau daca nu, merge si o capra care sa stea...capra... dar inca nu s-a intamplat...oh well, speranta moare ultima...
- cinepa ramine imo un aliment (si nu numai :P) "minune"
- cum facem sa crestem cocos la noi ? este necesara, pentru cine doreste o existenta libera, o sursa de ulei autohton. ideas, anyone ? :)

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 Post subject: Re: dezbateri despre grasimi
PostPosted: Wed Oct 19, 2011 10:50 pm 
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Location: Paradiso perduto
Observatii la observatii.
Nu zice hop, flame-ul pluteste in aer. :P
Asa cum uleiul de susan (care e PUFA in draci) poate fi ales de catre unii (medicina ayurvedica de exemplu) pentru antioxidantii lui speciali sesamol, sesamin si sesamolin, la fel si canepa, pentru alte "minunatii". Dar nu poti manca ulei de canepa pentru continutul de O3, asta e un nonsens. Cred ca e un bun ulei de masaj. :D
Cocos la noi nu se poa', nici maslini, poate doar capre. Sau bivolite. :)

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Nevoia persistenta de un univers logic si coerent este profund ancorata in inconstientul uman. Dar universul real se afla intotdeauna cu un pas in afara logicii.
Frank Herbert - DUNE - Pildele lui Muad'Dib


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 Post subject: Re: dezbateri despre grasimi
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 3:41 pm 
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Sursa de oleic autohtona plus raport 6-3 in defavoarea 6

Uleiul de jir Fructul de fag fara coaja se prelucreaza prin presare la rece si la cald. Continutul in ulei al jirului intreg este de 23-31%, iar in miezul curat de 42-48%. in miez se gaseste si o cantitate mai mica de alcaloid toxic - fagina, care este distrusa prin incalzirea fructelor. Uleiul obtinut prin presare la rece este colorat in galben deschis si are gust foarte placut, iar cel prelucrat prin presare la cald este mai inchis la culoare, cu gust patrunzator si arzator care dispare la rafinare.
Caracteristicile fizico-chimice ale uleiului de jir sunt urmatoa­rele:
densitatea (la 15°C) 0,910-0,922;
punctul de congelare intre-17 si-18°C;
indicele de refractie (la 40°C) 1,4623-1,4659;
indicele de saponificare 180,0-201,0;
indicele de iod 104,4-121,0.

Continutul in acizi saturati este de pana la 8,5%, din care:

* oleic - pana la 77%
* linolic - pana la 9,2%
* linoleic - pana la 1%
* substante nesaponificabile - pana la 0,8%.
http://www.bursaagricola.ro/Info-Nucile ... 051-1.html


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 Post subject: Re: dezbateri despre grasimi
PostPosted: Thu Oct 20, 2011 5:12 pm 
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ar mai fi galbenusul de ou, in conditiile in care gainile alearga libere printr-un mediu nepoluat. la urma urmei, din el se construieste sistemul nervos al puiului, deci... hail to the alchemical chicken :D

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